Speaking with Kara Sheldon - Project Ecologist

Kara Sheldon is the ecologist and one of the directors of the Southern Africa Field Conservation Project. SAFCP was formed following the participation of the directors in a local conservation project largely run by Dean and Justine McGregor. I joined it as a ‘guinea pig’ for the first run of a conservation programme that they hope with contribute significantly to local conservation efforts.

The project is located at the Woodlands Community Reserve, located just outside the town of Victoria Falls in Zimbabwe.

In this podcast, Kara discussed the aims of the project, the importance of conservation and what to expect if you want to get involved.

Find out more about SAFCP and how you can help, here.

You can also find them on social media:

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It's time for another podcast...

Please take a look at the 2026 Wildlife Calendar. It's available now.

Transcript

>> Graham: 0:19

Okay, well, welcome to another podcast. Now, if you were listening to last week's podcast, you will have heard me speaking with Dean McGregor. And, we're at a conservation project here in Zimbabwe near Victoria Falls. And today I have Kara Shelton with me, just checking that, Hello, Cara.

>> Kara Shelton: 0:39

Hi.

>> Graham: 0:40

And, boy, we've spent the last almost two weeks together. Feels a lot longer, no? Cara's, a director and ecologist for the Southern African Field, conservation project. Did I get that right?

>> Kara Shelton: 0:56

Yes, you did.

>> Graham: 0:56

Okay. Yeah. And, basically Cara's been running things on the ground. And the idea of this podcast is to let Cara describe first of all what the project is about, because it's volunteer driven, so they are definitely looking for support from people like you. And also to maybe talk a little bit about her background, how she got involved in conservation here, because we have a little bit of an overlap in terms of previous volunteering, projects we've been involved with. And, then we're just going to talk about how you could get involved. So, Kara, I'm going to hand over to you just to tell us, perhaps outline the project, what the goals are, what it entails, what happens when somebody joins the program here.

>> Kara Shelton: 1:38

Yeah, so Project Musongo was created by, my nonprofit, and we really wanted to get involved in an area that doesn't have a lot of involvement right now. So, Woodlands Community Reserve has been absolutely amazing. we got in contact with Wayne, because of Ian Dupree, and we.

>> Graham: 1:59

So I should just say, actually, Ian, was working at the Nacavango Conservation Program, which we both volunteered at. And you want to say who Wayne is?

>> Kara Shelton: 2:07

Yeah, he. So Ian started the Nakavango, and he worked there for over 20 years. And that's how I kind of got, my love for ecology. But Wayne, so this property belonged to his family and then it got taken away from his family.

>> Graham: 2:21

Right.

>> Kara Shelton: 2:22

And then only recently did he, gain back control over it, basically. so I think that was in like 2023, so extremely recent. Did he. He get the property back? And. Yeah, it was a hunting, concession for a really long time. So now, now he's turning it back into conservation.

>> Graham: 2:40

And just. Just to add a bit of background there. So if you don't know, there was some, there were problems in Zimbabwe around 2000, and a lot of the traditional people or white owners of property essentially lost their property because of what was happening, with Zimbabwe and Mugabe and all of that stuff. So there is a history of people losing their homes, their properties. And so some of that is changing. That's really, What is the background to Wayne getting back control of this area?

>> Kara Shelton: 3:09

Yeah, yeah. It's unfortunate that Wayne's family was one of those who did lose their property. but, yes, very exciting that he does have control, of it now. And like I said, going from hunting to conservation, that's kind of a really big reason why we're here. I am. I volunteered for the first time at Nakavango in 2018, and that's when I met Ian Dupree.

>> Graham: 3:31

Right.

>> Kara Shelton: 3:31

And that's when my love for conservation really began. I, mean, I grew up and I got my first college degree to be a zookeeper.

>> Graham: 3:38

Right.

>> Kara Shelton: 3:39

Because, yeah, that's just what I wanted to do. And I was. That's 100% it. And then I met Ian, and obviously he completely changed my course of life because he's just absolutely amazing. But, yeah, so we now have the ability to come here to Woodlands, which is a reformed, hunting concession now conservation. And we get to do so many different things here. Like, we're part of a big picture, but there's so many small things that we're doing that are impacting everything and things that we don't even know about. Like the community litter pickup that we're doing. it's not only saving the wildlife from ingesting it and possibly killing that, wild animal, but it's also saving the community members, livestock, which is their livelihood. It provides them eggs, milk, meat, money, all of that kind of stuff. And when the cattle go out and graze and they ingest it and they die, they lose a huge part of their livelihood. so we're just picking up that one piece of trash is saving the life of a lion or an elephant or a, cow or a goat. so it's helping both the community side and the conservation side. the camera traps that we're putting up could catch a poacher, which could save animals. it tracks the movements of lions, which is a huge problem in the, human wildlife conflict issue that's happening right now. so it's. It gives us better opportunities to track them and try and keep them away from the community, to. To prevent the loss of a life of a lion. Yeah, the road work. I mean, it's road work.

>> Graham: 5:10

Yeah. So somewhat we've even do it because most of the roads around here are, ah, tracks, basically, you know, so, and unfortunately that. So you get periods of no Water at all, then periods where there's lots of water. And in those periods the, where there's lots of water, the tracks can tend to get washed away, so they become very difficult to drive on. So that's part of the, work that we're doing.

>> Kara Shelton: 5:32

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it's not necessarily helping conservation directly, but when you get people who pay to come here and drive their vehicles through here, if the roads are absolutely crap, yeah, they're not going to want to come back, which isn't going to bring money in for the wildlife. So it is, it is helping redirecting the water to not flow down the track and ruin it and then ruin the experience for, potential, people who want to give back in, the future. So, and then the tree wrapping, I think, is so special too, because a lot of people don't realize the elephant impact here, with the overpopulation of them and the destruction that they're causing, which is unfortunate. But, we had the opportunity to wrap an albata tree. they call it a winter thorn. So they are super important to the entire ecosystem. They provide fruit and leaves in the wintertime, in the dry season when no one else does. they also have nitrogen fixing roots, which means that all of the plant life underneath of them is thriving. so we wrapped the tree in chain link to protect it from elephants. Because some of these tree species, like the Elbada, they can, they'll use their tusk and then they'll kind of pick at it, but then they'll grab a piece and strip the bark, which is in turn killing the tree, which is therefore like all of these animals that come, the baboons come and roost, the impala eat the seeds that fall on the ground, the giraffe eat the leaves and the elephant eat the leaves and the fruit in the tree. So, like all of these species that really benefit from this, pollinators that feed off of the flowers. So this saving this tree species is saving a lot of species in turn. and it's really cool because the tree can actually grow through this mesh link, which, has been proven to work on multiple trees at Nakavango, actually.

>> Graham: 7:18

Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 7:19

and Ian found out that this would be a potential way to do this because he took two tree species, and he studied them both and he's like, why is this tree species getting, nailed harder than the other one? And it wasn't. And anything to do with nutrition, it had to do with ease of getting so much more you get so much more. it was like 3 kgs per bite versus the other one. So, at Nakavango, there's this big alba tree that actually had this like, old wagon wheel at the base and it grew through it, and it didn't harm anything in the tree. it just became part of the tree. So basically the thought process is these trees are going to grow through the mesh and the elephant is only going to be able to take off chunks, so small chunks of the bark.

>> Graham: 8:05

the chainmail sort of stops, basically. The fence wire stops it. It can't tear beyond the wire, so all it can get is a tiny little bit. It can't. And if you, if you come here and volunteer, you'll see some trees where they've just got a hold of a bit of bark, just ripped it almost straight up, you know. Straight up. Yeah, yeah. And this just kills them.

>> Kara Shelton: 8:23

Yeah, absolutely. And it might not kill them, right away, but some of these, like the baobab, it's called the lollipop effect. so they will, eat the middle, rip up the middle, and then the top is just so heavy, just completely falls over. Yeah, yeah. so, yeah, like you had said, basically becomes hard work for these elephants. So they're not going to stick around very long, so they're not going to cause much damage. so, yeah, that, that really is a, really cool part of what we've been able to do. I think that's been one of the most exciting things for me. But I've also really loved, we've been able to speak to so many people. We've been able to speak to the w about human, wildlife conflict, what that looks like and how far down it trickles and just the smallest things that are, really big to these community members and they're working with, the community to resolve the conflict and to save lives of people and of the wildlife. and then we were able to meet with the village head and figure out kind of what he's doing, what his projects are, how we can help there. We met. We got to go on a snare sweep with anti poaching unit. So that really awesome. I think there was like three different units there. There was the, Zambezi Park Support foundation ranger. There was, Zambezi National Park Ranger. And then there was actual police force.

>> Graham: 9:44

Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 9:44

And then the dog.

>> Graham: 9:45

Yeah, the dog. And those guys walk pretty fast. And the other thing about it as well is they don't have radios, so they commute. So they sort of try and stay more or less in sight with the next person. So they look at about a 5 meter spacing. But also to communicate, you get these little whistles happening.

>> Kara Shelton: 10:01

Yeah. Which was so cool. I didn't know that they, We didn't get a big chance to talk about kind of the nitty gritty of it all, but, yeah, we were just walking and then all of a sudden they were whistling to each other and I was like, oh, my gosh, it was so cool. They mimic, bird calls so that. Yeah. Just in case there is an active poacher out there. when multiple humans are walking, you can't really tell what species it is.

>> Graham: 10:21

Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 10:21

so they can't go off of that. And then the whistling kind of throws everything off. So. But it was so crazy that we. We thrown in the middle of the bush with these rangers and then they pinpoint pointed a buffalo leg. Like just a singular leg.

>> Graham: 10:37

Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 10:37

It was absolutely crazy. And the. The detail that they went into to kind of identify if it was poaching or not poaching. Like so many different things. While the rest of the body isn't there and the poacher normally wouldn't leave the leg. Like, it's.

>> Graham: 10:50

Yeah. there was a leg with a bit of meat on it still. Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 10:53

Yeah.

>> Graham: 10:53

Perhaps pointed a little bit to a Lionel or something. But. Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 10:57

Yeah. And then they were like, we can't rule out poaching because around the ankle it looked like they might have used a knife.

>> Graham: 11:02

Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 11:03

So it's just so cool, all of the small details that we don't know. because we're not rangers, nor are we in shape enough to be rangers.

>> Graham: 11:11

Yeah. Yeah. You definitely, if you do come, you know, get on the treadmill a bit.

>> Kara Shelton: 11:14

Oh, my gosh. Well, in the beginning he was like, we're not gonna go very fast because we want the wildlife to be able to, like, move away from us.

>> Graham: 11:22

Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 11:22

And then we're huffing it through the bush.

>> Graham: 11:25

Yeah. I'd hate it if they were going fast.

>> Kara Shelton: 11:27

Oh, my gosh. I thought I was gonna get left behind. My shoe came un.

>> Graham: 11:31

I saw you tying your shoe. Yeah. At one point. Yeah. I made sure I stood near someone with a gun. That was my only criteria.

>> Kara Shelton: 11:37

Yep. And then I ended up with someone who didn't have one and I made my way back.

>> Graham: 11:41

No, you never know what's out there. having said that, one of the things we've or I've seen when we've been out in the bush is that somebody who knows what they're doing, knows how to interact with animals that can be dangerous. So elephant, potentially lions, things like that. and they know how to read the situation and most of the time they don't need a gun. I mean, it's useful as a last resort, but often that is all it is, it's a last resort.

>> Kara Shelton: 12:05

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just this morning when we were out on a drive, we shut the car off and that elephant was there and he was kind of pushing the boundaries and he was mock charging. Yeah.

>> Graham: 12:14

And he was coming at me a little bit, which I felt you were definitely gonna put out bikes. I was just trying to take his photo.

>> Kara Shelton: 12:21

Yeah, but I mean the trust that we have in our guide, who's driving the vehicle to know and have the knowledge of the behavior of these animals to keep us safe. And I mean, we put our lives in the hands of this guide, Dean McGregor, and then we also put our lives in the hands of these anti poaching unit.

>> Graham: 12:40

Yeah. And you know, that's an important thing, because these guys really know what they're doing. And, we've had a lot of fun on Dean's podcast. And if you remember the Swedish ladies canoeing down the Zambezi. Well, you know, there was obviously a bit more to it than that. but no, that's an important thing because these guys really know what they're doing. And this is why, if you are in these sort of environments, it's really important to be with somebody who does know what they're doing.

>> Kara Shelton: 13:06

Absolutely.

>> Graham: 13:06

Because it's very easy for things to go a little bit pear shaped on you if you don't know what you're doing. And then you can be in real trouble.

>> Kara Shelton: 13:12

Absolutely. And these wild animals aren't anything to mess with. I mean, they're.

>> Graham: 13:18

So, sort of coming back. So we've spoken about a few of the things that go on in the project. So, we've got obviously the road maintenance, which isn't directly a conservation thing, but it enables conservation to happen because it allows people to basically get around this part, which is pretty big. This, or this area is a quite a large area.

>> Kara Shelton: 13:37

Yeah, it's very big.

>> Graham: 13:38

It can easily take an hour or two to get from one end to the other. Yeah, I mean it's big. And also you're going slowly. But obviously the better the roads are, the easier it is to get from one place to another. In fact, there was one road went on which is blacklisted because that Was very, sort of focused the mind. Oh, yeah, yeah, that was pretty rough. so there's. That. There's also understanding the community aspect. So we have gone to a talk. We did a talk actually yesterday, in the national park. And they. And the problem, one of the problems that is common everywhere is this business about human need for land encroaching on what has always been the territory of wild animals. And they're not really recognizing the difference. So you get this conflict. And if a lion sees nearly an easy kill, which could be, cattle or a donkey or whatever, it's going to go for it. And of course that's real money that's been lost by that particular person. So this is where this comes in. So there's a lot of education goes on. And they were talking about these kind of portable enclosures that they try and encourage local people to use, to put the cattle in overnight. Because I was talking to Dean about this this morning. In most cases, if the line can't see, it won't go for it.

>> Kara Shelton: 14:54

Yeah, yeah, that's what they said. And they're like I said, and I'll say it so many times, like, it. This big picture stuff trickles down to these small, small things that just blow your mind. Like the, the things that we also have to understand where the community is coming from. Like they are, like you had said, losing their livelihood when they lose cattle. So then they view the wildlife as. As bad.

>> Graham: 15:16

Yep. Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 15:17

So they, they're growing, they need food, their cattle need food. So they need to move into these wildlife areas to graze their cattle. So these, the wildlife trust is working with them to kind of allow them to do that, but in a safe way so that we kind of get, rid of this nasty thought process around wildlife. Like wildlife has been here and will always be here is the goal. so we really need to figure out how to work together. But in order to do that, we also have to take into consideration how the community feels, why they feel that way, and to try and change their mindset. And, the guy that we were taking around this morning, can you remember his name?

>> Graham: 15:56

It was very long.

>> Kara Shelton: 15:57

It was.

>> Graham: 15:59

I think we'll call him, Joe.

>> Kara Shelton: 16:02

Joe. When we were taking Joe around this morning, he's from the community and to. To drive past his home and to see where the conditions that he lives in and the struggles that he faces. Like, he instantly brought up water, having, to go and get the water. But what I'm going at is when we were at Victoria Falls Wildlife Trust. They were talking about needing to get the information out there and trying to, convince these communities that wildlife is wildlife. And this is just their natural behavior. They're not trying to be bad like they see walking dinner, they're gonna get walking dinner. So I was thinking that, an amazing place to start would be these workers here, because they are from the community. so to be able to get together with them and kind of talk about the different ideas and the different ways, of doing things, bringing it back to the community. And I think it's so important because right now they're working in conservation, kind of, like, in a way, they're. They're, tending to the people who are staying here. They're going out and they're maintaining the roads, and they're doing all of these things. So, yeah, they're already kind of trickling into the conservation side.

>> Graham: 17:13

Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 17:13

So not to continue to encourage that and then take it back to the community, I think would be a really amazing thing to do.

>> Graham: 17:20

Yeah, well, one of the things as well, there's a couple of things in there. One of the problems that the guys have done about yesterday at the national park is that people don't want to change their way of doing things. So if they've always left the cattle out at night, that's what they want to do. And that in itself is just one major obstacle to get over. and I think the other thing is for local people to see value in the animals. Because I remember this going back when I was at Nakavango back in, 2020. so Ian is a brilliant guy, actually. Very, very, very smart. One of the things he spoke about was that, people who live here see on TV how people in the US live, people in UK live, all the rest of it, and they want the same. I mean, why wouldn't you? And for a lot of them, they just see the animals as something that get in the way. So you need to turn that around as well, and they need to see that the animals have real value. Because the truth is, a lot of these animals that we're seeing are endangered. And if we don't do things soon, which is why these conservation programs are so important, they won't be around, you know, you won't be able to see an elephant, you won't be able to see a lion, you won't be able to see a giraffe. all of these things.

>> Kara Shelton: 18:26

Yeah, absolutely. And with the wildlife that we've seen here has been Magnificent. Like, our sightings have been so great. These people that are hired from the community would not have these jobs if this conservation effort wasn't here. If the Woodlands didn't put in this. This ridge camp to kind of house people like us who are doing a volunteer program or just here to see the wildlife and get encouraged to kind of get involved. so conservation is creating jobs for these community members.

>> Graham: 18:55

Yeah, absolutely. And that's where it needs to be. And just going back to when I was in India at Kana, which is the tiger. It used to be tiger park, but it's now national park. But what they've done there is employ people to look after tourists. they work in hotels, they work as, guides, they work as drivers, all these different things. So they now own the tigers, though. They're their tigers.

>> Kara Shelton: 19:19

Yeah.

>> Graham: 19:19

And in that area, the tiger population is recovering, because they're also on the lookout for poachers.

>> Kara Shelton: 19:25

Yeah, well, that's because there's value on.

>> Graham: 19:27

Exactly.

>> Kara Shelton: 19:28

On these tigers. So, yeah. And I. It, creating jobs for these, community members. And like he had said earlier, the garden that we saw is to pay to get food from there. So if he can come here, he can work his conservation effort, he can do his job here. He gets paid, he goes back to the community, and he buys food from the garden, therefore putting money into the garden and allowing that to grow. so, yeah, conservation, especially here in Woodlands, it's so fresh and so new, but it has so, so many opportunities, which is why I think it's the perfect place for us to have been for the past two weeks. I mean, we've been able to see kind of what is being done, what. What can be done in the future. The. The issues that are going on with the community and. And the wildlife, especially in this area.

>> Graham: 20:13

Yeah, yeah, no, that. That's. That's absolutely right. And the. The vegetable garden is actually very impressive.

>> Kara Shelton: 20:19

It was so green, and the tomatoes were insane. Insane. I can't even grow a garden like that at home.

>> Graham: 20:25

No, they're very good. So, obviously we've been sort of chatting around things. So the kind of thing that you can expect if you were to come here is to really. And with any volunteering program, essentially, it's to come along and do what's necessary. So the key things we've been doing, I guess, to recap, are, the camera traps. So Kara's going through a program of replacing some of the older traps with traps that you can access remotely.

>> Kara Shelton: 20:51

Yes.

>> Graham: 20:52

getting rid of well, replacing SD cards on the ones that can't so we can just get hold of the images. So that obviously needs to be done on a regular basis. we've also been wrapping trees. So these are the vulnerable trees, the trees that are vulnerable to elephants. And one of the things that really struck me being here is just the devastation that elephants cause. And what I mean by that is you see some big trees, then you see lots of really little ones, and that's elephants. And they are really destructive. So it's so important. And these trees are almost what I'd refer to as a keystone species.

>> Kara Shelton: 21:25

Yeah, I agree with you. I mean they, they, they make their own little ecosystem. This specific species of tree that we have wrapped, makes their own little ecosystem. I mean, like we were talking about the nitrogen fixing roots, but then not only that, but baboon go up and they roost at night, which means they defecate, which means the poop fertilizes. So it's like this really nice cycle. so it's such an amazing tree to be able to have through, through winter. but the, yeah, like you had said, you see cathedral trees, but then you see all these shrub like trees. And that is unfortunately from elephant, because in these, in these areas they're overpopulated because the communities are growing bigger, which means their areas are growing smaller, which.

>> Graham: 22:06

We'Ve seen quite a few young animals, babies and juveniles.

>> Kara Shelton: 22:09

Oh, it's been so amazing. Giraffe, kudu, impala. You just see the generations, which is, which is what you need. And honestly, this is the first. So this is my seventh trip to Zimbabwe. This is my first time in Woodlands. but I have never been in an area that has had such beautiful generations. I've never been somewhere where I can be like, oh my gosh, look at, look at the, like you said, the baby, the juvenile, the sub adult, the adult. Like you can just see. And that's what we're trying to save. Like you can't make an impact if there's no wildlife here.

>> Graham: 22:42

No, no. And yeah, the wildlife's been amazing. So if you want to come and see wildlife. And that's the advantage of a volunteer program because you get pretty much exclusive access to animals. When we have had, ah, a few, I think three couples have been through while we've been here. Yeah, just going around the park, you can do that.

>> Kara Shelton: 23:00

Yeah.

>> Graham: 23:01

but that's pretty much it. So you're not fighting tour buses. And you know, it's not like the circus that you'll find in the Serengeti or some of these other places where you've got a lion trying to have a kip and there's 20 cars around it. You know, you don't get that. and there's. And there's a huge difference. We came across Cape buffalo, and, I estimated there about 250. 250. Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 23:22

Yeah.

>> Graham: 23:22

yeah, it's really impressive. And there's loads of elephants one day as well.

>> Kara Shelton: 23:25

Yeah, it's beautiful. And like you said, you. You get free access to that. Like, you're coming to do this work, you're coming to do your part in conservation, do your part in. But you got to get from point A to point B. And when you're doing that, you see all this beautiful wildlife, you see, the generations, you see these beautiful trees. But then on the other hand, you also see the devastation, which is really good. As sad as it is, it's really good to see. It's. It's a good story to share because then we can do something.

>> Graham: 23:53

Yeah. Because it's. It is a balance, and it's a more difficult balance. And I think a lot of people realize until you start getting into it. And this is, again, a good reason to volunteer because you get to understand what the real problems are and what the solutions are as far as they've been worked out, which ones are working, which ones perhaps aren't so successful. And, that, in fact, is a lot of what Ian was doing was, trying things out on a small scale to see what worked so that that could be repeated. Repeated in national parks, not just in Zimbabwe, but in other areas. Because the different countries around here do communicate and they do work, together to, help conservation.

>> Kara Shelton: 24:31

Yeah.

>> Graham: 24:32

So I'm just thinking what. So hopefully we've given you a flavor of what's been going on here, what we've been doing over the last couple of weeks. And Cara, maybe if you just want to tell people how they can find out more, because this is kind of, a trial run, I suppose, in many ways. See what happens. see where the. See where the bugs are. Work those out.

>> Kara Shelton: 24:55

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you were the best guinea pig. I mean, I, I really am so thankful for you, being the person that you're being, helping me, grow as a leader. kind of giving me tips and tricks because I've been the volunteer, I've been the intern, and now I'm the leader. Like, it's. It's a lot to take on, and there's a lot behind the scenes that people don't see. There's a lot of. Especially in Zim, man. Like, you're on Zim time.

>> Graham: 25:20

Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 25:21

And Zim time runs so slow. So you.

>> Graham: 25:23

Yeah. Don't expect anything to happen quickly here in Zimbabwe. Yeah. Things kind of evolve.

>> Kara Shelton: 25:29

Yeah. Which is refreshing. Unless you're in charge and unless you're trying. You're the planner and everybody around you works so slowly. But, we still got to do amazing things.

>> Graham: 25:40

Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 25:41

I think that, this has been an absolutely wonderful opportunity for me, especially because, like I said, this is our first time at Woodlands, so to be able to see kind of what the potential is here. and to also view it from your point of view as a volunteer. Kind of like you said, the bugs and the things to work out. I mean, it's been so enlightening, too, that I'm like, gung ho about next year. And the first couple days of the first week, I was like, this needs to be over.

>> Graham: 26:09

Yeah. Okay.

>> Kara Shelton: 26:09

This needs to be over. we were doing really amazing things, but behind the scenes, there was a lot going on that, some were in my control, some wasn't in my control. but we made it through. And I'm really sad it's over.

>> Graham: 26:22

But we've got another. Well, we've got this afternoon, which is going to be Sundowners. So if you don't know what Sundowners, are, that's kind of where you chill out, you grab a few beers or whatever is your poison, and we head off somewhere lovely and there's a little lake we're going to go to.

>> Kara Shelton: 26:34

Yeah. And then you just sit there and drink and watch the sunset and tell stories and who knows the direction that this night will go and if we'll make it to the morning.

>> Graham: 26:43

But that's an important thing, actually, of it. It's also about enjoying where you are. Because it's actually quite a privilege, I think, to come to places like this. And if you do have one of those really busy lifestyles where you can't get away from email and all the rest of it, well, come here. Leave the phone behind, or at least turn it off, and just enjoy where you are. Because, there is a silence here that is just very, very, kind of lets you connect a bit with just being at peace with where you are. And then you'll hear something dying horribly. But other than that, not always the.

>> Kara Shelton: 27:19

Kudu, the hyena, you know. But, yeah. So we, are going to do this again next year. And Southern Africa Field Conservation Project is a mouthful but it is our non profit and we do have a website SAF and there will be a.

>> Graham: 27:34

Link in the description. So that will be there.

>> Kara Shelton: 27:37

Beautiful. Yeah.

>> Graham: 27:37

So I'm pointing at it now. Right. Funny how I did video podcast.

>> Kara Shelton: 27:43

Anyway, and we also have social media so we have Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or X whatever it's called now. So yeah, lots of places to find us and hopefully that link goes in there.

>> Graham: 27:54

Yeah, we'll have all the links in the description so you'll be able to find the project and then. Yeah. Do you have a mailing list so people can sign up or maybe that's something to just to get advised on what's happening with trips next year.

>> Kara Shelton: 28:07

Yeah, absolutely. So we have our deputy director has an email and she's really that go to. So we can put that in the.

>> Graham: 28:13

Yeah, that'd be good. Yeah. So if you are interested in knowing more, my intention is to come back next year with a few more people.

>> Kara Shelton: 28:19

We'll see how tonight goes.

>> Graham: 28:20

Yeah, that might change tomorrow. So far it's going well. But no, seriously, you know, if you've, if you've ever thought about coming to Victoria Falls because you do get time in the in Victoria Falls itself. We're actually about a two hour drive from the center of Vic Falls. But obviously Vic Falls is world famous and it's world famous for a reason. It is absolutely stunning. So do come. but also you can come here, contribute to saving wildlife, contribute to the local community and help them do what they do and get a good look at the wildlife. Yeah, have a great look at. Honestly, you'll get the kind of access that people pay a lot of money for in these top end resorts.

>> Kara Shelton: 29:04

Lucky. We are so lucky to Wayne has been amazing. Yeah, the staff has been, have been amazing. also if you can't shut the phone off, there is WI fi here.

>> Graham: 29:13

Yeah.

>> Kara Shelton: 29:14

For at night. when you get back and you want to communicate with your family or you want to send photos or whatever, whatever you want to do. But yeah, we've been so lucky. I mean a lot of these national parks you have to be back to your camp by sundown. Like you cannot be through the park. And Wayne was like, you know what you want to, you got a red spotlight to go through at night. You take a night drive, whatever you can go do sundowners in the middle of the park, come back at dark. so yeah, it's really been nice.

>> Graham: 29:40

well, that's it, because night drives are very different. You've got a lot of predators active, which you often don't see during the day. So. Yeah. Anyway, we could talk a lot about this for a long time, actually, but we'll wind it up there. But thanks very much for that, Cara. I'm going to get a beer.

>> Kara Shelton: 29:56

Thank you so much for this opportunity. I'm really excited. I hope lots of people really absorb everything that we've had to say and hopefully see some of them next year.

>> Graham: 30:05

Yeah. Okay, great. Well, don't forget the links. Don't, forget to, like, subscribe all those other good things, and I'll speak to you in the next podcast. Bye for now. Well, I hope you enjoyed that. Now, I just want to say thank you for tuning in and joining me in the, Wildlife and Adventure Photography podcast. If you have enjoyed today's episode, please give me a like a subscribe, maybe tell your friends, and by all means leave a comment. And if there is a subject you would like me to cover in the future, please let me know and I'll, be very happy to do my best. So thanks again for joining, me and I look forward to seeing you again next podcast. Bye for now.