Talking with Matt Jacob; Photographer and Pilot

This week I speak with Matt Jacob. Matt is a British born Bali based photographic artist with a passion for capturing narratives through photography. He offers his audiences valuable insights into untold stories, inviting them into unfamiliar lives through aesthetically beautiful and meaningful images. From his early days with a disposable camera to his current status as a master storyteller, Matt's journey is motivated by his deep-seated passion for visual storytelling.

After successfully fighting cancer, Matt reshaped his outlook on life. He infuses his artistic practice with a profound appreciation for the beauty and fragility of existence. Through his lens, he crafts timeless snapshots that speak to the soul, inviting audiences to cherish life's fleeting moments and embrace the richness of diverse cultures.

Beyond the confines of his studio, Matt is a modern-day explorer, traversing the globe as a pilot. His time in the cockpit allows him to fly around the world and to uncover cultures through his camera. With each photograph, he offers a glimpse into the vibrant tapestry of humanity, fostering empathy and understanding among global communities. In addition to his artistic pursuits, Matt's insightful podcast delves into the philosophical depths of photography and filmmaking, enriching conversations with wisdom drawn from his own journey and the experiences of fellow creatives. In the world of visual  storytelling, Matt is a beacon of creativity and inspiration.

Website: https://mattjacobphotography.com/

It's time for another podcast...

Transcript

>> Speaker A: 0:17

Okay, well, welcome to another podcast. Now I'm here with Matt Jacob today and I'm going toa let Matt tell his story because he can tell it a lot better than I can. But he's got a really amazing story but not only relating to photography but also relating to life which you know, we've all got one so it does affect our photography. So look, I'm go going toa hand straight over to Matt to let you talk about yourself and really introduce yourself to everyone who's listening. So over to Matt.

>> Matt Jacob: 0:51

Wow. Let's put me on the spot straight away, shall we?

>> Speaker A: 0:55

I love it. You mean to go on?

>> Matt Jacob: 0:57

Yeah, it's always, it's always a difficult one to talk about yourself, isn't it? I do have a story. I never think it's that anything special or different or. I mean it is different, it's unique of course, but I wouldn't say there's anything more special than anyone else. But it got me to where I am today and it has obviously impacted, influence the way I see the world and especially the way I see the world through my camera lens. So yeah, so was brought up in the uk, brought up in a household that was very loving and very supportive but was very was not very creative. my dad was in the military, my mum's a dentist and they were very old school in the way they wanted me to go to university, get a good job, a good job in quotation marks and you know, go through kind of an orthodox way of being brought up into the adult and professional world. And the life of a pilot drew me to, you know, wanting to go to university, get degrees, do you know, be as best at academia as I could so I could be good at maths of physics and therefore be have a good chance of becoming a pilot. That was kind of my dream. and that's. I was very, very fortunate to be able to achieve that. And so the first, kind of, the first early entry into adulthood and to kind of professional life was as a pilot. And through being a pilot I was exposed to many parts of the world and in a very kind of privileged way. But I was, my eyes were definitely open very widely through, through being a pilot and getting paid to travel essentially. And you know, by the time I reached 30, I traveled to many countries and realized that you know, I'm not doing anything in these countries. I'm not giving to them, I'm not giving back, I'm not You know, I'm coming home. And at this point there wasn't really social media, there wasn't digital photography was obviously around, but there wasn't kind of the fast and digitized way of sharing one's life and experiences with the world. and so the camera was something that I kind of picked up in a real interest of being a geek, essentially being a techno kind of interested young man. And it was the buttons and it was a gadget and it was a toy. And that combined with my travel interest and wanting to almost document my life through something or at least kind of in a self serving way show people, oh look, this is where I am, right? This is what I've experienced and obviously quickly grew out of that. But the camera was something that allowed me to, I don't know, play with that interest and play with that expression. And so yeah, by my early 30s I was just playing around with cameras on work trips and then on holidays as well. So as I kind of play around, play around, played around with the camera and learning kind of technical stuff which came quite easy to me justuse I had a technical brain. What didn't come easy to me, what I really didn't understand or get or was very naive to was kind of the artistic elements of photography and learning how to be tell narratives and context and I would say the more artistic side of photography. and it was through that kind of desire and I guess overwhelm and confusion that I don't know, I got better at that. Anduse I really wanted to kind of get more into that side of photography. And that's really how I found my style. And that's really where portraits came in and the human nature of photography came in and documenting different cultures and different indigenous populations and that's really where all kind of culminated my curiosity for travel, different ways of life and how to, how to best artistically convey those through the camera. So yeah, I hope that wasn't too long of an answer but it kind of brings me, brings us to where I am today with, with me and my camera I guess now.

>> Speaker A: 5:24

That's fantastic. And I think a lot of people can ra. I can certainly relate because when I started it was all film cameras and I'd be down the second hand shot getting all the stuff know camera m flashes and it was all really exciting. And then you got to take a photograph of somebody and it's not about them buttons anymore, it's about trying to connect with them. And that was where I Started to struggle. So, yeah, I think, I'm sure many people listening can relate to that, that you kind of, you can get into the techie part and then all of a sudden you're having to turn into an artist. And with the portrait work, did you. What was your aim with portraits? When you were traveling and taking portraits of people, Was there a, you know, something you were striving for when you were taking those photographs?

>> Matt Jacob: 6:06

Yeah, it was to, it was to drive awareness, I guess in the view. There's always something that, some element of photography I didn't quite get an early age. And that was exactly the question he asked. What was the intention behind all this? What am I doing this for? And it made me, you know, I still think about that today. You know, it's a daily pursuit and daily puraily kind of, goal to answer that question with everything I do. What is the intent behind what's the why? And that can change all the time and that can shift. But with portraits there was always a theme of self interest or self curiosity in what I'm taking or the people that I'm meeting. Because the experience and the connection I would get from these people would far outweigh the photograph. And especially in my early days where I just couldn't get a good photo, I thought it was good, but it wasn't. I didn't know what I was doing. And so it's always when I think back on my early photos, I think even actually not just my photos, but I always think of the experience of the people I don't think about, oh, that's technically a great photo or that looks really nice. So the purpose and the intent behind it today is still the same. And it's, it's, it's twofold. It's that it's to drive my own curiosity and challenge myself with how can I get a good connection here? How can I learn more about these people? People or this place or this environment or this culture, but also how can I then convey that in a connective tissue to the audience and to the people seeing my photos? How can I drive their curiosity and how can I drive their awareness and how can I help educate there maybe on some people that they've never heard of or they don't know about, or a location that they've got no idea about. So it's kind of both ends, I guess, of the camera, one, one of my own and one of hopefully, I mean inspiring maybe, but really I want to just drive the curiosity of the viewer. And I want people to look at my photos. Okay, that, that looks really nice, but what's going on here? Who are these people? What's the story behind this face, these eyes or this location? And that's my job done. If I can do that and really spark that interest and curiosity in inter viewer, then that's what I'm aiming for.

>> Speaker A: 8:33

Yeah, personally, to me that's very important. It's about having that connection, with me. It's more animals these days, but there is that. You know, people have the personality and not this me. But I was thinking of an early portrait I took when I was in my 20s and it was my father. Unfor, she died when I was quite young, but I was playing with portraits. And when my parents I think were probably similar to yours in terms of being quite conventional. My father's photography, a portrait was somebody kind of little figure in the middle of the picture. You sort of make out who it was. You know, that was his idea of a portrait. And when I took this picture of my father, my mother hated it because it was a real close up. but to me I felt I'd captured something of him. You know, when you looked at, see something of a man and then after he died, that was the photo everybody wanted. And it was quite interesting from the perspective of, you know, just sharing somebody with other people who maybe knew him, maybe they didn't. And then I think from what you're saying, clearly these are people that most people looking won't have ever met these people. But if you can give them a sense of connection with them, I think that's really expansive. I think that helps, people to appreciate these other cultures to be.

>> Matt Jacob: 9:49

There has to be that connection, especially with portraits. And it doesn't matter whether it's your father or whether it's your pet or whether it's some stranger. Right, where there's some stranger on the other side of the world that you've not met before. I've spent a limited time with. In order for a good portrait to have an effect on the viewer, then I do believe that there has to be a connection between you, the photographer, and the person, the sitter, the subject, the model, because it just doesn't resonate. It's. Especially in today's world of doom scrolling and saturation and digitization and homogenization. It's so easy to just scroll past stuff, right. If you put it into a young person's terms, what's going to make them stop scrolling? What's Gonna make them know that is a good photo. What makes a good photo or something that resonates with an audience? Well, in a portrait genre for me it has to show some connection. And that could be. That's almost a tacit, an invisible element of a photo. Right. How do you define that? It's very difficult. You just know when you see something, when you see a moving a person, in a still Image which is 2D, not even 3D or moving. Right. That's extremely power, can be extremely powerful. So it's a huge challenge to try and do that. And that's why good photographers are able to do it and the lesser photographers, are not able to. It's not easy and it takes a lot of time and dedication and skill, I guess at the end of the day.

>> Speaker A: 11:33

Yeah. And when you, where do you get your inspiration for photography? I mean most of us, I think is photography. Our style evolves and we're constantly growing. And to me that's one of the things that's exciting about photography because you never, I don't think you have a master photography in as much as it's always something new to learn what inspires you.

>> Matt Jacob: 11:56

Yeah. Isn't that wonderful about photography? That is just. There's always just something to iterate and there's always something to express at a different avenue to go down and different inspiration, different thing to try. so yeah, for me I, it's a really good question because I get inspired by so many different things on a daily basis and the frustration that I find, and I'll answer your question a bit more directly in a second, but they frustration I find with photography is that I love it so much. I see so many different. I have so many different ideas and I want to do this and I want to photograph that and then I see someone else do something like that's amazing. I'd love to do something like that. And then admin gets in the way and know you've got to pay the bills, so therefore you got to do stuff you don't really want to do. And aner emails and then before you know it, you haven't taken any photos, you haven't given yourself time to dedicate to trying that new thing or going down that avenue and seeing where that might lead and failing. Failing and trying again and failing. Right. That process is so important. So yeah, my inspiration comes a lot from the people around me. Have some very, very inspirational associates and I guess, friends here in Bali and around the world. The podcast I Run. Wow. What, what a privilege to be able to meet so many fantastic artists and realized that my goodness, my field of inspiration, so narrow and so I guess just network and connection. But everything from the greats of photographers back in the day and present time to people I just meet in my studio or on social media or through photo tours or, or competitions or just. There are just so many, people that inspire me and places and cultures. Right. It's so very easy to get inspired by a place, a city or ah, ah, a cohort of people that you might bump into if you're traveling or even in your hometown. Right. So I think it's very important to be open to as many types of inspiration as possible. But my biggest photographer, inspiration, inspirational photographer to say is Joey L. So Joey Lawrence, also known as Joryel. He's an environmental portrait photographer who led the way in kind of that sub gennre for many years. The the fortune of interviewing him. My podcast, earlier this year. And he's really shaped a lot of my style, or at least there are lots of elements of his style in mine, which is. I've always feel it'like a good and bad thing that it's great to have inspirations but not to copy. So I'd really try not to copy too much and put my own spin on things. But like you said, I'm evolving all the time and the more incredible photographers I connect with, the more I take from them or get inspired by them. So yeah, the list is endless. my style and kind of my voice in photography has changed a lot this year. The more, inspirational figures I've met and the more books I've read and the more podcasts I've listened to or been on. And it's endless. It can get, it can get overwhelming sometimes. But, you know, it'sly a good thing. Right?

>> Speaker A: 15:39

Well, yeah, I know what you mean. And you kind of stay excited and it's almost. Am I going to go for now, yeah. Okay. Looking at your life experience and I don't know how much you want to talk about, and that's completely up to you. But, but I read a bit in the bio that you had. what changes has that made? to, I guess you view on like. Because to me photography is an expression of your view on like. We tend to either focus on particular subjects or look for particular outcomes. And it's based on what, you know, our life experience, what we want to communicate, what we want to share. With others what impacts is your life experience had on your photography? And I t. If you want to talk about that that's fine but I don't also set you up so I'll hand that over to you as a hot potatado.

>> Matt Jacob: 16:31

No, that's absolutely fine. I talk about having cancer an early age for so many times and it's become even joke about it now because I think if we can't joke about these things then you know, what can we do. But yeah, so I was diagnosed with cancer at, at the age of 22 and I was very immature. 22 year old. I was I wasn't very emotionally intelligent even for a 22 year old. no offense to 22 year olds but you, they most 22 year olds are still growing in that type of philosophy. but for me I was even more kind of immature and the emotional intelligence. So I didn't, I didn't know how to process it until really 10 years later I could deliberately and consciously kind of look back and go oh, that's really how I processed it. And I didn't really realize at the time that's how I dealt with it. And really it came out through travel. It really came out through. It's a cliche but many a time I would just think well life is obviously too short, what am I worrying about this and that for? And I was very anxious child. and so that dissipated a little bit. And as I kind of let go of some shackles and moving into photography that really opened up my desire to just go and do what I wanted to do. And photography kind of overtook the flying side of my life. I was flying side of my passion I should say. when I was able to recognize what I had been through and how my outlook on life had changed without me really knowing it. And so when I picked up a camera I was able to then kind of deal with that. I was able to really put my front foot forward into self expression. And that self expression was really something of wanting to go and explore and wanting to go and connect with and empathize, try and just generate this empathy with people who are so different from me. And if I really felt that was kind of like the solution to everything in life because life's too short to be held up on differences. We're all human, we're all people. And how could I kind of bridge that gap through something I enjoyed doing with my hands, which was photography. So yeah, it wasn't quite a simple it was'quite a simple light bulb mod. Oh, well, now I have this outlook on life, but I only really realized kind of how my self expression would and how I wanted to, what I wanted to go and do with a camera until, until I really picked up a camera. And that really helped me, helped cure my bug and my kind of need to go and express myself. So yeah, it was a fascinating journey in that respect.

>> Speaker A: 19:39

Yeah. And I think that's a really valid point you've made about. It's about meeting people who are different. It's about the difference. And for me I think if all we do is meet people the same of us, we don't actually learn much. It's kind of boring actually. but the more we meet people who are different, it makes us think about things differently. It makes us look at other people's cultures, look at our own culture from a different perspective. And I think in all of that interaction we grow as people and we mature as people as well. We realize there's not just one way of doing things and one way of being, there's actually very many ways of doing things and you know, living our life, expressing our life, dealing with problems, all that sort of thing. So I think that's a very important life lesson, I guess. And if more people learned it, I think we have a lot fewer problems, Frank, because you know, you embrace the difference. That's where the joy is, that's where the learning is.

>> Matt Jacob: 20:41

Yeah, people shy away from it, don't they? Now we live in a polarized echo chamber society where you don't really get those differences in your. Certainly when we're thinking about an online world, you don't really see those differences and when you do, there's much more of a visceral reaction to it.

>> Speaker A: 20:58

Right.

>> Matt Jacob: 20:58

So when, when you're on, certainly when I'm got my camera in hand and I'm trying to connect with someone who speaks a different language, who doesn't really know about photography or have really care about it, has a smile on their face but nothing on their back and is able to just give me everything that they've got for that day. I mean, how humbling is that and how much of a privilege is that that I can at least like spend that time with them and hopefully show people who see my photos that there are these people that live the other side of the world to you or maybe not just round the corner maybe and they really can show us a, ah, different way of living happily or a different way of living that is you know, that we can maybe learn lessons from, but end the day, provide context and provide perspective to all of our lives. Because we all, including myself, we all fall foul of being in our own little bubble, right? We'in our daily crind in our bubble. And a lot of us are not very mindful or aware of what else is out there. And that's why travel is such a good educator. but I understand that a lot of people can't travel and are not able to travel. And so hopefully, you know, photography and documentaries and videos and books, these are designed to inspire and to educate or to make people aware. And if I can do that in an aesthetic way that's pleasing to the eye, then it's my job done and I'm happy to do it. So I think there is a real connection to. To, you know, closing that distance between people, but also making people aware and giving them perspective that, you know, there are. Everything's okay. Your world is not the only world. Right. So we have to be able to empathize with other people, other forms of life, and how maybe we are affecting them or how they're affecting us, so that we're able to, you know, live. Live a little bit more peacefully with each other, maybe.

>> Speaker A: 23:15

Yeah, absolutely. And that's a good point you make about the travel, because not everybody can. But also, I think one of the powerful things about photography is that, you know, most of us live in some sort of a community and we can. A challenge, if anyone listening wants to pick it up, is to go into their own community and just photograph it and show aspects that, perhaps they walk past every day. I think one of the powerful things about photography, and I worked with a group called We Observers when I was living in Sydney. And I think that sums it up really well. It's about looking at what's in front of you and really looking. And one of, the. I think one of the most powerful things we can do is take photographs of everyday things that saying Syney, people walk past, you know, thousands and thousands of people walk past little things that they'd never even see. And as photographers we could pick on those things and, you know, bring them to other people's attention. And we can do that with people as well as objects. So, yeah, the challenge is there for us every day as photographers to go out and tell a story. The visual storyteller, which I know is something that you're, you know, is a strong part of what you do.

>> Matt Jacob: 24:25

Yeah, I love that. And I love that you've brought up, you know, taking photographs of things that we, we see but don't see every day that are part of our daily life or just that we walk past. Right. Or something catches the light that people don't notice for a little moment. These things are so powerful because at the end of the day, you know, for us to all be more at ah, peace with oneself or be happier and you know, we throw out all the cliches but we're all searching for something. We're all searching for a better way of thinking, a more peaceful way of thinking and more happy life, more contentment. There's little parts of that all come down to just being present and being aware and being mindful of what we're doing on a daily basis and what, what beauty we live in in a daily life. And that can be the people that we're around, that can be structures, that can be geography, that can be animals, that can be so many things that we just so often just goes straight over our head. Right. Because we're so involved in that daily hustle and bustle. So yeah, I really love that you brought that up. It's something I'm introducing more and more and more into my work as well. Not just of the people side of things, but certainly the other elements of that story and the other elements, of a narration to still images and that involves maybe slightly more abstract ways of looking at things, but definitely involves more still life stuff. It involves more overseen elements of a visual picture and to marry those and to pair those with you know, portraits or some type of environmental portrait is I think very powerful. Certainly helps with my storytelling for sure.

>> Speaker A: 26:16

So one of the questions that we spoke about earlier, I'm goingn it was. And so we did have a chat before we started recording this because I'm not, you know, mean m. But the first one. What would you say to anybody who is listening, first of all about, you know, if you have to give someone advice about how to get maybe the most from photography or just how to maybe broaden their horizons, what's a good thing they can do as a photographer to just start expanding and stepping out of what they've been doing. I don't know if that's a very good question to ask. I'll put you on the spot again.

>> Matt Jacob: 26:55

It's a very good question. It's a very difficult question. But first thing I said by my course, yeah, I honestly, I don't know how to answer that very well. But in my experience, I mean There, there are so many different ways. But I think the biggest thing that has helped me and that has helped me talk to other photographers who are starting out or want to get better or want to turn it from hobby to profession or whatever it might be their goal in photography is there is no substitute for practice. There is no substitute for doing. And I don't mean practic, like structured. Well, today I'm going to practice photography, but just living it right. And that can be anything from a hobbyist to someone who wants to do it as a full time profession. And for me it goes across all of those, levels to actually just do it all the time. And that couldn't be picking up a camera, taking photos, or it could be taking 10 minutes of your day to read a photography book or taking 10 minutes of your day to listen to a photography podcast or to even just scroll Instagram or scroll your favorite photography platform, gain inspiration, whatever it might be, go for a walk and think about, okay, would, would be a nice photo today. Or you can have specific intent of, I'm going to take this specific photograph today or for the next month of red things, whatever it might be, right? It could be a wide array of intents behind doing photography, but I would honestly, from my own experience, the only way I've felt that I've got better and the only way I've seen other people get better and become so fulfilled with photography is many things, but the one common denominator is them doing it all the time. It's just, just living it and just really kind of just saturating yourself within the photography world. So that would be my biggest piece of advice and that would look different for every single person out there, whatever that might mean. But just look, I'm just gonna engross myself. Photography for the next, for this year, 2025 coming up, it's gonna be my photography year where I'm just gonna just enjoy photography on a daily basis for whatever that might mean and we'll see how it goes. You know, some people may retract and be like, okay, this, maybe it wasn't for me. I might take my holiday snaps while I go on holiday. But I guarantee most of those people will come out of even just a month of kind of involving themselves with photography, a better person, let alone a better photographer. So that would be my one piece of and nugget of knowledge.

>> Speaker A: 29:51

I guess that's a good answer to a tricky question. And I think that's right. I actually just recorded a podcast yesterday which, but and part of it was talking about community and if you can connect with other people because I think that makes it, you know, it s. When I was in Sydney we'd do these photo walks and it was

7: 30:11

00 on the Tuesday evening. If you've got something like that, it kind of puts a little an hour in your diary or an hour and a half. And I think the value of it is definitely your photography improves. But also you can step out of whatever the day to day stresses are and just immerse yourself in something that hopefully you love and inspires you for an hour, hour and a half, meet other people if that's an option. And I think when you go back to the daily stuff, you re kind of refreshed in a way or you can just look at problems slightly differently and you've got that just sort of time out from the day to day. I don't want to say grind, but I know for a lot of people it is that. So it's that just a little bit of escape.

>> Matt Jacob: 30:55

Yeah, I love that. I think community is, community is so important in life, isn't it? Let alone almost a superficial craft like photography. But one thing I ve found is that it's quite difficult to, depending on where you are. I found it quite difficult to find a photography community and that's the main reason I started a podcast, is just to connect with other photographers. I know it depends. If you're in a city like Sydney, I imagine it's not that difficult to find little photography clubs and find little communities. But know if you're in the country somewhere or if you're in a country that isn't, I guess as westernized or as visible in the photography world as somewhere like Sydney or London or New York or a lot of these big cities, then it can be quite difficult. It can be quite a lonely venture, right to go and start proobby or and try and actively pursue something like photography on your own. You rely on YouTube and you rely on your own fumbling around trying to do something and trying to make better photos, not really knowing what you're doing maybe and just trying stuff. Having that community, like you said a, it takes you out from your own head a little bit. but you can gain inspiration. You have conversations, you learn so much and you can just enjoy. It's like being part of a team. You can just enjoy doing what you all love, you know, having something in common, together. And yeah, I definitely agree with you on that. Respect for sure.

>> Speaker A: 32:34

You know, I live in a, on the edge of a small town in rural southwest France so I'm much more online. So.

>> Matt Jacob: 32:43

That sounds heavenly.

>> Speaker A: 32:46

Look, most time it is, but there are shortcomings as well as with everything. So yeah, I've got much more online. So I'm going to ask you the other question that I raised earlier that could be thinking about, you know, what would you say to 15 year old Matt? What would be your advice? And I'm, and the reason for asking this is I think, you know, it's good to stop and think and maybe look back at what we've learned and what's different in our lives because I think in doing that we can sort of see how far we've come. And one of the things I find is often we're kind of so sort of head down getting things done. We don't realize how far we've come and how much we've learned. So again it's another tricky question to throw you way. but what are your thoughts on that? What would you say to your much younger self? Or maybe not that much younger, Much, much younger.

>> Matt Jacob: 33:45

I can't even remember. I can remember being a very, very anxious 15 year old. I don't know why. I had everything that was, it was very, very middle class, white male, middle England upbringing. and so I had absolutely nothing to worry about. And the irony was I worried about everything. So you know, it'd be easy for me to say well don't worry about anything but you know, I'd like to give myself, my 15 year old self some techniques to overcome that anxiety. But on a broader aspect I would, I would probably tell my 15 year old self to say yes, more say and I found that out as I reached essentially probably late 20s, early 30s where like your earlier question about my illness and I kind of realized okay, you know, I was able to process it as more of a mature adult and say yes to more things and go and explore. Now an opportunity comes my way and my default answer is yes, let's try it right, let's see what happens. 90% of the time it doesn't work out or I suck at it. But you know, I enjoy that process and my 15 year old self would probably not do that. as very, very kind of set in my ways as a 15 year old and very anxious and very very very insecure as a 15 year old self, as a lot of 15 year teenagers, 50 year old teenagers are. So I would probably say that I would probably say something if you get invited to something where an opportunity comes away or, you have the opportunity to go and learn this skill or go and go and join this team or go and join this community or not worry about what other people think of you. I was very much a status driven teenager. I wanted to be seen to be, you know, good and successful. And I don't know where that came from. so, yeah, would. I would definitely, definitely say to him, you know, just, just worry less, say yes more.

>> Speaker A: 36:04

Yeah, no, that's great. That's a great answer. And again, I can definitely relate to that. I think that's great advice because I went through the same journey and used to be very worried about things and then at a certain point just decided to say yes to pretty much everything. And the number of times I've been in the situation, I thought, what were you thinking? But you get some great stories.

>> Matt Jacob: 36:25

Yeah. And you learn so much. Right. You know, as long as you do yourself. Learn from our failures.

>> Speaker A: 36:32

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Or having a step up in a way that we did, we thought we'd never have to. And I think that'seah.

>> Matt Jacob: 36:41

Yeah, absolutely.

>> Speaker C: 36:43

Yeah.

>> Speaker A: 36:44

Okay. Well, before we line things up, Matt, is there anything else you'd like to say or share or, you know, anything else to say before we finish our chat here?

>> Matt Jacob: 36:56

not really. I mean, we'putting my sal ha on. People can check out my work, obviously, and just, release my new online course, which is geared more towards portrait photography. But there is a general photographic, element that runs through the course. which the idea behind it was to learn how to take photos with equipment worth less than hundred, $500. Because I found a lot of people's pain points or myths, should I say, were if you have better gear, you take better photographs, which they're not necessarily. There's no causation there. There is a correlation maybe, but not causation. And so, you know, I wanted to really dispel that myth. So, you know, people that resonates with people and they wonder why they've got$5,000 worth of equipment but their photos still aren't where they want them to be, then my course may be for them. So, that's what I'd say. but yeah, other than that, keep on tracking, keep on practicing, keep on iterating, keep on trying and failing and trying, failing. And we'll share this journey, this up and down journey together.

>> Speaker A: 38:09

That's brilliant. Well, thanks very much for, your time, Matt. I really enjoyed chatting to you and for, the link to Matt's website is in the description of the podcast. You can find out more there. And yeah, thanks again and I've really enjoyed it.

>> Matt Jacob: 38:26

Yeah, thanks very much, Crab. I appreciate it.

>> Speaker C: 38:29

Well, we're getting close to the end of another year, so 2024 is starting to come, to an end as I record this. So I hope it's been a good year for you and I hope you get a bit of a break over the coming weeks. Maybe have a cool yul or whatever it is you celebrate, if you celebrate. I particularly just wanted to record this to thank everybody for their support. the podcast is really growing and obviously that's down to people listening and hopefully sharing. so I do thank you for that. I particularly want to thank my Patreon supporters because they, contribute to what I'm doing financially, which is great because that helps me to keep going. And if you haven't contributed or if you're thinking about it, don't be shy, that you can. It doesn't have to be a permanent subscription. You can also just buy me a coffee if you've enjoyed the podcast. But everything is appreciated. And I also wanted to remind you that the 2025 calendar, My Wildlife, calendar is still available so you can order those online on the website. so if you go to www.ge.photography, you'll find, the calendars there. so whether they're for you or if you just want to give one to somebody as a present, I think calendars are a pretty good present to go for. And of course there's also the fine art prints and my online training courses. Now if you are serious about photography and you're not ready to commit to a course and I am giving 100% money back guarantee on those as well. So I'm taking all of the risk on the courses. but there's also challenges you can do for free like the 14 day challenge that's there. There's also a PDF you can download, that gives you 10 tips to just help your photography. So whatever you're doing, over the next few weeks, I hope you enjoy it. And I'll be looking at, my plans for 2025, which at this stage I'm hoping to get to Zimbabwe. So, I'll keep you informed on that. But whatever you do, I hope you have a great time and thanks again for your support throughout 2024. So bye for now.